The Lincolnshire Bird Club

The LBC Forum. To register on this forum YOU must NOW be a member of the LBC - see Membership Page for details.
To join the LBC Forum you must be a Member of the Lincolnshire Bird Club - Click here for Membership Information
If you would like to post an item, but ARE NOT a forum member please submit information using the Record Form: if suitable the information will be posted on the LBC Forum on your behalf.

It is currently Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:36 pm

LBC Homepage - The Photo Album - Submit a Record (for Non-members)/ or Request - LBC Forum Information and Access Help - Forum Information


All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:11 pm 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:08 am
Posts: 89
Location: Healing
Picking up some of the points that have been made earlier under the Cleethorpes White-Rumped Sandpiper heading, it seems to me that:-

1. The RSPB's commitments and ambitions will always exceed its income and resources. Therefore, given the particular problems at
Tetney Marshes that were outlined by Terry, it will always conclude that money can be better spent elsewhere.
2. There will always be a conflict for the RSPB between the need to encourage people, including future generations, who will provide its
income and the provision of the ideal conditions for conservation. It is my view that they have gone too far down
the 'encouragement' route in some places (but not Tetney Marshes!)
3. The notices at Tetney Marshes completely inadequate. A casual visitor could be forgiven for having no idea that they had entered an
RSPB reserve. Even proper conspicuous notices will not deter some people from carrying out detrimental behaviour (like the dog
walker Terry encountered) but they might deter people who have no intention of causing disturbance.
4. The only hope for Tetney Marshes is if a local millionaire leaves the RSPB a very large legacy specifically for development of the site!
(Only joking!)

More seriously, I will make some enquiries to check if the situation is still as Terry found it 5 years ago, and to find out what plans, if any, the RSPB has for the site.

If I find anything useful, I will report back on this forum

Regards
Martin Francis
Leader - RSPB Grimsby Local Group


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:41 pm 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Cleethorpes
Top post, Martin. Thanks for taking the trouble to introduce some authority to the discussion.

It's unfortunate that when anyone suggests that the reserve could be enhanced for the benefit of birds and birders alike, it tends to send some off on a tangent of negativity - e.g. about illicit barbecues , drones and uncontrolled dogs.

Re the dogs, you can't blame the owners too much. Regardless of the signage at the reserve, the precedent for letting dogs off leads has long been established. I'm not a dog owner, but I can appreciate that the whole point of taking a couple of spaniels on the saltmarsh would be to let them run around freely. In his post of September 4, LBC member Chris Grimshaw describes the pleasure of seeing his own dog (not at Tetney) "dash about like the mad one she is" . Anyone who challenges a non-birding dog-owner on the saltmarsh risks being derided as a "twitcher-jobsworth saddo".

Well done to Terry for all his efforts of yesteryear to raise the profile of the site with the RSPB hierarchy, but just because his proposals were knocked back then doesn't mean that the chapter is closed for ever. Times have moved on. No harm in looking to the future. Personnel and policies change.

I accept it would be a tall order (and massively expensive) for the whole of Tetney Marshes to be transformed for the benefit of public access. Also, the lack of disturbance over such a wide area must be advantageous to redshank, snipe, jack snipe, skylarks etc.

But perhaps there is a way that a relatively small part of the site, say at the Fitties end, could be configured to make it a Frampton-style birding hotspot, especially if a deal could be done with the farmer for an adjacent field (or part of a field) to create a couple of lagoons as a magnet for wetland birds.

The RSPB's attitude to the reserve seems to one of benign neglect. It is not even listed in the latest edition of the handbook. Admittedly, there is a reference to it on the society's website but not in any welcoming sense - the suggestion being that the public should go instead to Frieston Shore (which is at least 50 miles away).

Having said all that, I realise there are risks.

Any enhancement initiative could lead to creeping commercialisation, and I know a lot of birders dislike the RSPB's "giving nature a home"approach which they find cloying, self-righteous and patronising. Also, efforts to make habitats bird-friendly often backfire. According to birders with long memories, nearby Cleethorpes Country Park was much better for birds before the local council decided they knew what was best and decided to give it a makeover ( with the area once favoured by sandpipers re-designated as "a dog-swimming area"). And most people know of the recent rumpus over the Yorkshire Wildlife Trust's Spurn Visitor Centre project which has created huge bad feeling, not least to those who look after the bird observatory.

But, as a start, some updated signage at the Fitties end wouldn't cost an arm and a leg and would demonstrate that the RSPB cares about the site and understands its potential.

To the society's credit, I understand that it has persuaded the owners of the adjacent Thorpe Park caravan site to stop selling crabbing lines with hooks attached because, when discarded, the hooks were causing avian injury.

What really needs to happen is for an iconic species - say, a pair of black-winged stilts - to set up home one spring.

Then everyone would wake up to the potential, and people would ask: why isn't more being made of this fantastic site?

In the meantime, perhaps someone from the RSPB might heed Martin's request and spell out if the society has any long-term ambition for the Tetney Marsh reserve or if it is content simply to let things tick over (apparently somewhat aimlessly) as at present.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:52 pm 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 11:10 am
Posts: 986
Location: humberston
wow :D
terry whalin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:22 pm 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:08 am
Posts: 340
Location: Cleethorpes
I am one of the most vociferous in the wish to have a Frampton of the North based on Tetney but unfortunately it's not going to happen for quite a few reasons.

I will leave others to consider the actual scientific factors behind the SSSI status but I understand that the presence of a very rare shrimp or such would prevent disturbance of much of the site. As a result English Nature would be a very hard body to deal with in obtaining permission to do as little as put a shovel into the ground let alone carry out major works.

There are several other factors to be taken into account including ownership of the actual land, lack of suitable access and difficulty of creating a varied habitat. I understand that much of the land is owned by colleges from down south and its doubtful that they would sell at all, let alone at a reasonable price. Same too applies to the farmers that own/work the land that would be required to develop alternative habitats and also improve access and car parking.

I am pretty sure that there would also be issues from the Wildfowlers if increased public access to the marshes was proposed.

Am sure that there are other negative factors that I have missed out but one final one I do have is how long do we realistically think any hides would last before they were trashed by the local heathens?

I suppose our best hope would be for much better signage and areas being fenced off to prevent human and canine disturbance. Oh and a gun emplacement to take out drones, microlights & paragliders!! :lol:

In addition development and management of the reclamation at Cote Donna would go some way to making a half decent reserve.

Yours sadly realistic
James


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:40 am 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 11:10 am
Posts: 986
Location: humberston
just what i was thinking james when i put wow, bet the farmers would be impressed with what is going to happen to his home and land lol, then there is the cash, anybody chipping in would cost millions and millions. :D
terry whalin :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:08 pm 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:18 am
Posts: 628
Location: Grimsby
There has been plenty of local frustration over the lack of investment in Tetney for many years now. As mentioned in previous posts, there are plenty of complex issues regarding any possible improvements to the reserve but I think it's also important to not forget the fine array of bird species that can already be seen in the area.

Tetney is what I call a true birders reserve - nothing is put on a plate for birders and what you see in the area largely depends on how much effort you put in.

There may be a lack of managed habitat but the reserve and surrounding area still provides saltmarsh, coastal lagoons, mudflats, beach, the Humber mouth, adjacent farmland etc, all of which supports a good variety of birdlife, for example:

Just walking along the seabank between the Yacht Club Pools and Tetney Haven on a good day in winter you can see 8 species of birds of prey.
Look off the Fitties and there is a good selection of waders to be seen and in favourable conditions looking out over the Humber from there can produce various gulls, terns, seaduck and even skuas and shearwaters depending on the time of year.
Shorelarks and Snow Buntings have sometimes been seen on the beach off the Fitties in winter, Lapland Buntings may be heard calling over the saltmarsh, with Water Pipits & Stonechats also wintering on the reserve.
Bushes along the seabank are also worth checking at the right time of year/favourable conditions and over the years have provided a number of rare/scarce migrants.

Let's not forget the other wildlife in the area which includes a number of UK BAP priority species that call the reserve their home, including:
Gammarus insensibilis - a lagoon sand shrimp that inhabits the Yacht Club Pools.
A Sea Aster Mining Bee colony is also on the reserve.

As I say, put the effort in and you might be surprised what you see. Black Brant, Common Crane, Great White Egret, Garganey, Honey Buzzard, Pallid Harrier, Red-footed Falcon, Grey Phalarope, Roseate Tern, Little Bunting and of course White-rumped Sandpiper have all been seen in the past year between the Yacht Club Pools and Tetney Haven by a few dedicated local birders.

Tetney certainly could be better but even in its current state I still feel privileged to have it on my doorstep.

Regards

Chris


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:09 pm 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 11:10 am
Posts: 986
Location: humberston
yes good ones, well done chris, just you bradders john nelson and a few others, well done all =D>
terry whalin :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:34 pm 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:44 pm
Posts: 1608
Location: Market Rasen
Excellent response. You don't need a pair of black-winged stilts to appreciate the potential of the Reserve - the lack of a visitor centre, obtrusive RSPB signs and easy access don't put off the genuine birders like Chris.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:40 am 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Cleethorpes
I'm no fan at all of commercialisation of wildlife places, so I would be the last person to bang the drum for a visitor centre (though it would undoubtedly prove very popular with many).

But what's not to like about the idea of the RSPB coming up with some habitat-creation initiatives with the aim of attracting an even greater variety of species?

For instance, if all or part of the adjacent arable field were to become available for creating a freshwater lagoon would any LBC member object too strongly? I don't recall many protests about what the RSPB did at Frampton Marsh and Frieston Shore. No one complained about birds being put "on a plate" for observers.

Incidentally (and maybe this should be the subject of a separate thread) what is the definition of a "genuine birder"? I am in massive awe of those club members who can both detect and identify famously tricky species such as rare warblers, gulls and sandpipers. But there is a risk of being too elitist about birding. There are lots of us who may not have the experience or skills (or the expensive optics) to have scaled the heights of the hobby. But just because we are not experts, that doesn't make us any less enthusiastic or any less "genuine".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:51 pm 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:18 am
Posts: 628
Location: Grimsby
Hello Jim,

My previous post was merely to highlight some of the fantastic wildlife that can already be found on the reserve and in the immediate surrounding area, wildlife that some may not be aware can be found there. However, after reading your last post I feel I need to address some of your comments.


1. In a world where we are losing habitat and wildlife at an alarming rate, I am all for habitat creation - the more the better.
I would be as happy as anyone to see a freshwater lagoon created at Tetney.


2. No protests from me about the fantastic work undertaken at other RSPB reserves.

Using Frampton as an example, the RSPB is to be applauded for creating superb facilities for both wildlife and birdwatchers alike. Visitors can get close views of a variety of species and hopefully feel a connection with nature. For many it can be an educational experience as well thanks to the information provided on the reserve and of course by talking to the staff there.
A visit to such a reserve can hopefully inspire people who haven't necessarily engaged with nature before to do just that on a more frequent basis, maybe even inspiring future conservationists.


3. At no point did I complain about birds being put "on a plate" for observers - see Point 2.
I was simply pointing out that you generally have to work hard to find species at Tetney as there are no scrapes, managed water levels, hides, etc


With regards to your "genuine birder" question I would guess that Stuart was probably referring to birders who are out in all weathers, spending plenty of hours in the field, consistently birding an area or areas that usually require a lot of hard work and effort.

I certainly don't see an elitist mentality on the forum, though to be fair very few of the county's more experienced birders still post on here anyway
Plenty of the more experienced birders I know do have time for those who maybe aren't at their level, though I admit some more so than others.
I actually served my "apprenticeship" by regularly going out with local experienced birders who saw I was keen and took me under their wing (excuse the pun).

Birding is a hobby for everyone whether a novice or an expert. We all share a passion for wildlife at the end of the day - that's the most important thing.

Expensive optics don't make a good birder, I've come across plenty with all the latest gear with far less knowledge than some with battered optics from yesteryear.

Regards

Chris


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:22 pm 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:44 pm
Posts: 1608
Location: Market Rasen
Spot on, Chris - that sums up exactly what I refer to as a genuine birder.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:39 am 
Offline
Lincs Bird Club Member
Lincs Bird Club Member

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:39 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Cleethorpes
Good points, Chris.

I think most members are more or less in agreement.

I have blogged the interesting speech by RSPB treasurer Graeme Wallace to last year's AGM at
http://thewryneck.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/boost-for-petrels-and-phalaropes-thanks.html

With an annual income of more than £137-million, perhaps the RSPB might yet be able to spare a bob or two for Tetney Marsh.

Perhaps a letter could be sent to the society's chief executive, Mike Clarke, encouraging him to visit the Tetney Marsh reserve to meet a high-powered joint team from the LBC and the Grimsby RSPB Group. Such a meeting would be an opportunity to discuss options for enhancing the site to attract greater numbers and varieties of waders and other birds - and for him to outline what the RSPB's strategy (if any) might be.

It is only right that the RSPB boss should get out and about and meet frontline birders - especially members of the Grimsby Group which has always been very vigorous and effective in raising money for the society.

Before he returns to HQ at Sandy, Dr Clarke could be treated to a fish and chip supper at a local restaurant and presented with a complimentary copy of the latest Lincolnshire Bird Report to read when he gets back home.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites